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	<title>Comments on: Sorcerers in D&#038;D 3.5</title>
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	<link>http://www.errantdreams.com/thoughts/2007/07/09/sorcerers-in-dd-35/</link>
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	<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 19:54:55 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Errant Thoughts &#187; Blog Archive &#187; D&#38;D 3.5 Skill System</title>
		<link>http://www.errantdreams.com/thoughts/2007/07/09/sorcerers-in-dd-35/#comment-908</link>
		<dc:creator>Errant Thoughts &#187; Blog Archive &#187; D&#38;D 3.5 Skill System</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jul 2007 10:06:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.errantdreams.com/thoughts/2007/07/09/sorcerers-in-dd-35/#comment-908</guid>
		<description>[...] been wanting to post about the D&#38;D 3.5 skill system ever since I posted about its use in the Sorcerer class. It&#8217;s probably a mistake to try to post about it at 5:30 am after discovering that Medrol [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] been wanting to post about the D&#38;D 3.5 skill system ever since I posted about its use in the Sorcerer class. It&#8217;s probably a mistake to try to post about it at 5:30 am after discovering that Medrol [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron</title>
		<link>http://www.errantdreams.com/thoughts/2007/07/09/sorcerers-in-dd-35/#comment-785</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jul 2007 20:12:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.errantdreams.com/thoughts/2007/07/09/sorcerers-in-dd-35/#comment-785</guid>
		<description>CoH did a good job with customization through costumes but also in other ways. Their skill system not only makes you choose from between skill possibilities for your class, but it also allows you to upgrade each of those skills in the ways you prefer. You might have 3 augmentation slots for a particular skill. You choose (partially based on what augmentations you loot from your kills) whether you want that skill to be stronger, require less energy, recharge faster, last longer, etc. That was a major reason I enjoyed CoH. The game also encouraged movement and had vertical environments. Ultimately though, it became a grind like any other MMO.

I don't believe balancing combat power is as important as most seem to think. The more similar to D&#38;D games are, in that there's depth beyond hit points and xp, the more variety is possible without things becoming unmanageable. My fondest memories of D&#38;D are of experiences that were not directly tied to combat powers, like falling in a pit or busting friends out of jail. Balancing sheer power is tantamount in linear gameplay. In lateral gameplay, there's more room for nuance and a wider variety of skills.

But I have to admit, sometimes I wonder if what I'm really hoping for is an MMO or a single-player game.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CoH did a good job with customization through costumes but also in other ways. Their skill system not only makes you choose from between skill possibilities for your class, but it also allows you to upgrade each of those skills in the ways you prefer. You might have 3 augmentation slots for a particular skill. You choose (partially based on what augmentations you loot from your kills) whether you want that skill to be stronger, require less energy, recharge faster, last longer, etc. That was a major reason I enjoyed CoH. The game also encouraged movement and had vertical environments. Ultimately though, it became a grind like any other MMO.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t believe balancing combat power is as important as most seem to think. The more similar to D&amp;D games are, in that there&#8217;s depth beyond hit points and xp, the more variety is possible without things becoming unmanageable. My fondest memories of D&amp;D are of experiences that were not directly tied to combat powers, like falling in a pit or busting friends out of jail. Balancing sheer power is tantamount in linear gameplay. In lateral gameplay, there&#8217;s more room for nuance and a wider variety of skills.</p>
<p>But I have to admit, sometimes I wonder if what I&#8217;m really hoping for is an MMO or a single-player game.</p>
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		<title>By: heather</title>
		<link>http://www.errantdreams.com/thoughts/2007/07/09/sorcerers-in-dd-35/#comment-765</link>
		<dc:creator>heather</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jul 2007 06:59:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.errantdreams.com/thoughts/2007/07/09/sorcerers-in-dd-35/#comment-765</guid>
		<description>The limited resources issue is another reason I like playing D&#038;D sorcerers, actually. When you don't have to memorize your spells at the beginning of the day, you don't have to worry quite so much about blowing your one and only memorization of a given spell. Your only concern is your daily spell limit for each level, and with a good Charisma score that isn't too bad.

I agree on polarized characters---it's kind of funny that you used that particular example, as my current Sorcerer has an 18 Charisma and an 8 Strength. Weaknesses can be as much a part of customizing a character as strength. I do miss having a merit &#038; flaw system in D&#038;D for that reason, although you can work many such types of things into character background if you have an accommodating DM.

I can understand why online games tend to allow much less customizability than tabletop---you don't have one GM per four or five players to handle balance issues, so you need to keep things simple in order to make it easier to balance the game. As it is games have a ton of difficulties with balance---additional customization would add to that exponentially. Still, I hope they gradually manage it. I get the impression City of Heroes/Villains caters to that desire quite a bit with the ability to customize your character's costume and such right up front (in other words they solve the problem by giving you something to customize that doesn't affect game balance); I'm looking forward to playing with that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The limited resources issue is another reason I like playing D&#038;D sorcerers, actually. When you don&#8217;t have to memorize your spells at the beginning of the day, you don&#8217;t have to worry quite so much about blowing your one and only memorization of a given spell. Your only concern is your daily spell limit for each level, and with a good Charisma score that isn&#8217;t too bad.</p>
<p>I agree on polarized characters&#8212;it&#8217;s kind of funny that you used that particular example, as my current Sorcerer has an 18 Charisma and an 8 Strength. Weaknesses can be as much a part of customizing a character as strength. I do miss having a merit &#038; flaw system in D&#038;D for that reason, although you can work many such types of things into character background if you have an accommodating DM.</p>
<p>I can understand why online games tend to allow much less customizability than tabletop&#8212;you don&#8217;t have one GM per four or five players to handle balance issues, so you need to keep things simple in order to make it easier to balance the game. As it is games have a ton of difficulties with balance&#8212;additional customization would add to that exponentially. Still, I hope they gradually manage it. I get the impression City of Heroes/Villains caters to that desire quite a bit with the ability to customize your character&#8217;s costume and such right up front (in other words they solve the problem by giving you something to customize that doesn&#8217;t affect game balance); I&#8217;m looking forward to playing with that.</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron</title>
		<link>http://www.errantdreams.com/thoughts/2007/07/09/sorcerers-in-dd-35/#comment-753</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jul 2007 03:36:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.errantdreams.com/thoughts/2007/07/09/sorcerers-in-dd-35/#comment-753</guid>
		<description>It just so happens that I reinstalled Neverwinter Nights the other day and I've been playing a sorcerer.  I love sorcerers as well, but I never completely adjust to games with limited firepower. Whenever I have limited resources in a game, I tend to be far too frugal with them, and they end up going unused much of the time. I suppose I'm always expecting disaster to strike.

There are a number of D&#38;D features I wish video games would adapt more often. One feature is how the classes are so vastly different from one another. Wizards and sorcerers are both spellcasters, but they're like night and day. The personalization of spells and skills is another awesome feature. Making clerics choose domains is an inspired idea.

I like to make polarized characters, like the sorcerer with 18 Charisma but 8 Constitution. Some classes are harder to do that with than others, but I don't mind them offering such varied gameplay experiences. 

More customization and personalization is always a good thing, as I see it. Customization and dynamics are the key ingredients of any game I would invent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It just so happens that I reinstalled Neverwinter Nights the other day and I&#8217;ve been playing a sorcerer.  I love sorcerers as well, but I never completely adjust to games with limited firepower. Whenever I have limited resources in a game, I tend to be far too frugal with them, and they end up going unused much of the time. I suppose I&#8217;m always expecting disaster to strike.</p>
<p>There are a number of D&amp;D features I wish video games would adapt more often. One feature is how the classes are so vastly different from one another. Wizards and sorcerers are both spellcasters, but they&#8217;re like night and day. The personalization of spells and skills is another awesome feature. Making clerics choose domains is an inspired idea.</p>
<p>I like to make polarized characters, like the sorcerer with 18 Charisma but 8 Constitution. Some classes are harder to do that with than others, but I don&#8217;t mind them offering such varied gameplay experiences. </p>
<p>More customization and personalization is always a good thing, as I see it. Customization and dynamics are the key ingredients of any game I would invent.</p>
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		<title>By: heather</title>
		<link>http://www.errantdreams.com/thoughts/2007/07/09/sorcerers-in-dd-35/#comment-738</link>
		<dc:creator>heather</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jul 2007 21:50:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.errantdreams.com/thoughts/2007/07/09/sorcerers-in-dd-35/#comment-738</guid>
		<description>I absolutely love being able to customize characters in ways that reflect their personalities, which means the Sorcerer approach to learning spells---spontaneously developing spells appropriate to their personalities---is ideal for me. I'm really glad I have the kind of GM who's willing to fix things like the skill point issue, though, as that's another area where I like to customize to personality. The fix he put in worked out perfectly, IMO. I can spend a bare minimum of points in a couple of interesting non-class skills without completely screwing my character over, but not many---I still don't have to worry about sprouting a massive and unbalancing list of skills as I level.

I find it interesting that tabletop games appeal equally to folks at both ends of the  spectrum---those who absolutely love the bookkeeping aspects, and those who hate it. It's nice that we can now choose between Sorcerers and Wizards to reflect those two styles. I'm more than happy to lose some of the versatility Wizards have in order to play the way I most enjoy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I absolutely love being able to customize characters in ways that reflect their personalities, which means the Sorcerer approach to learning spells&#8212;spontaneously developing spells appropriate to their personalities&#8212;is ideal for me. I&#8217;m really glad I have the kind of GM who&#8217;s willing to fix things like the skill point issue, though, as that&#8217;s another area where I like to customize to personality. The fix he put in worked out perfectly, IMO. I can spend a bare minimum of points in a couple of interesting non-class skills without completely screwing my character over, but not many&#8212;I still don&#8217;t have to worry about sprouting a massive and unbalancing list of skills as I level.</p>
<p>I find it interesting that tabletop games appeal equally to folks at both ends of the  spectrum&#8212;those who absolutely love the bookkeeping aspects, and those who hate it. It&#8217;s nice that we can now choose between Sorcerers and Wizards to reflect those two styles. I&#8217;m more than happy to lose some of the versatility Wizards have in order to play the way I most enjoy.</p>
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		<title>By: ScottM</title>
		<link>http://www.errantdreams.com/thoughts/2007/07/09/sorcerers-in-dd-35/#comment-737</link>
		<dc:creator>ScottM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jul 2007 21:35:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.errantdreams.com/thoughts/2007/07/09/sorcerers-in-dd-35/#comment-737</guid>
		<description>I have had the same experience with Sorcerers, and the same complaints about the limited skill points and skill lists.  After running a druid and burning out on daily spell memorization, Sorcerers (and other spontaneous casters) are definitely the way to go for me.  Glad you're enjoying them too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have had the same experience with Sorcerers, and the same complaints about the limited skill points and skill lists.  After running a druid and burning out on daily spell memorization, Sorcerers (and other spontaneous casters) are definitely the way to go for me.  Glad you&#8217;re enjoying them too.</p>
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