Comments on: Dagger-Star and Alpha Females

By: heather

heather — Mon, 05 May 2008 19:13:20 +0000

Hi Cian—sorry your comment got caught by the spam filter and thus you ended up with two of them. Thanks for emailing me or I probably never would have noticed! I am, in fact, absolutely shocked that you agree. Clearly I must pick up some of Elizabeth Moon’s books (gack! so much to read!).

By: Cian

Cian — Sun, 04 May 2008 21:07:51 +0000

It was the mysterious disappearing comment. I thought I posted this last week, or something much like it.

approximation of last week’s post:
I find myself regularly appalled by the provincialism, self-centrism, racism, sexism and all kinds of other isms that permeate the web/blogosphere. Fortunately there are also islands of rationality and we are here to talk about books, not that other stuff. I especially like Susan’s choice of Elizabeth Moon’s characters as examples of strong women. The Deed of Paksennarion is one of my favorite fantasy series, and I enjoyed the Heris Serrano ones as well. I think much of the realism comes from Elizabeth’s time in the Corps.

Heather also strikes a good point when she talks about consistency. I think it is perfectly OK for someone to be either celibate, wildly promiscuous, or anywhere along the continuum as long as it matches with what they profess to believe about the world. I am much more interested in the congruence a person displays with their ideals. That is why I am a 4th century Irishman (ask me about it sometime if you are interested). All people should be able to pick their own path as they travel their road.

Cian

By: Cian

Cian — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 21:04:35 +0000

Shocking though you may find it, I agree. I am regularly appalled by the remarkable provincialism, racism, and sexism portrayed daily in the web/blogosphere. Fortunately we are here to talk about books. I applaud Susan’s selection of Elizabeth Moon’s books as samples of a powerful female characters. I especially enjoyed the Paksenarrion stories. I also got into the Heris Serrano series, but it appears I have fallen behind. I think at least some of the realism those characters possess come from the author’s time in the Corps.

It should be the choice of the character, male or female, to engage in sexual practices consistent with their view of the world. I find it perfectly acceptable that a female character should approach sex from a casual, hedonistic perspective or be essentially celibate. The determining factor should be the character’s view of the world and any judging criteria I would apply would be in how accurately they match their own ideals. For me, the expression of sexuality is not as much of an issue as the congruity of their beliefs and actions.

By: heather

heather — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 13:16:04 +0000

I know and agree, Susan—that kind of ignorance about gender just… well, it makes me think these people are deliberately blind. There’s really no way you can look around at the modern world and not see that this isn’t true. I do think the fact that the female heroine was unashamedly fond of a good ‘roll in the hay’ just got on people’s nerves, and that’s a shame. I thought it was a fantastic change of pace, and well, I still think it’s ridiculous that society can’t seem to shake off the whole ‘guys who sleep around are studs while women who do it are sluts’ crud. At least apply one of those across the board, you know? I don’t care which, as long as a person is consistent about it. I also loved Dagger-Star’s portrayal of a woman having to come to terms with the fact that she was coming to care for someone she’d thought of only as a bed-partner. That was so fresh and enjoyable.

By: Susan

Susan — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 04:14:44 +0000

I can’t believe people think women can’t be leaders! What about Elizabeth Moon’s series - it’s Science fiction, but no one has accused the character of being a man in disguise. Do you think the readers/reviewers for Dagger-Star were upset that the traditional depiction of the female heroine being chaste was being changed? I think it’s good that we can let women evolve into a more realistic portrayal - not that we have meaningless sex, or lots of one night stands! But I think it happens more frequently now with this new generation. It’s good to see a romance book that says a damaged/hurt/abused woman can find happiness, can eventually learn to love after hideous scaring like abuse. I still think we have to evolve further, to recognizing that some women like meaningless sex, and choose it. Normally they play the bad female role in the romance novels, the experienced temptress. Very interesting that she is the heroine in this book. I haven’t read romances in a very long time, so your review was interesting to me in how the field could change.
I also know from experience, both through friends and my own, that often abuse does lead to meaningless sex because it’s safer than engaging in intimacy, which is the real emotional trauma.